Below, Uli Beutter Cohen explains how she became hooked on talking to strangers on the subway. She talks of how this process has become central to a huge social movement which is expected to become the subject of a documentary series shortly.
Hollie: This is Hollie Fraser. I am the ideaXme ambassador for reading, writing and literature.
ideaXme provides access to the creators who shape our world. It is a podcast, social media campaign, ambassador and mentor programme and will soon launch as a social network.
Today, we're talking with Uli Beutter Cohen founder of Subway Book Review, also a reporter for the Lily News. So, welcome Uli. Tell us a bit about who you are and what you do.
Uli: Hi Hollie! Thank you so much for inviting me to this conversation. I think the best way to describe what I do is by telling you something that you must know about me which is that I'm fascinated with how we communicate and how we share space and that is what drives me to do all the things they do in life.
Hollie: So, explain to people who don't know what Subway Book Review is.
I thought okay this wasn't much it was literally one sentence and she said I like it, I like the movie and I'm reading the book and that was it and so from there though I was kind of hooked and I thought it was totally electrifying to break etiquette and to just go up to someone especially as a woman. I don't think you're necessarily expected to go up to a stranger and initiate a conversation, so there was just so much to thrill in it and then I just couldn't stop. And now I am over 700 conversations into it and yes, I have spent hundreds of hours on the subway and have collected hundreds of conversations and am sharing them all over the Internet.
Hollie: So, did you approach her because you connected with that book? Or just because you wanted to approach her? What was the reason you started it in that moment?
[00:02:45]
Uli: In that moment, I didn't even see what the book was. I only saw her holding a book. I had just made a bet with myself that you know that day I had to do it.
And so I was at the end of my subway ride and I thought last chance, now is the moment to do it or you will have missed this opportunity and that was more it. It was that I had been riding the subway that day and I had noticed all of these books and I thought okay one of these people you just have to ask and I let all these people pass by. And she was my last chance to try. And so, with that trial. So far, a 4 year long project was born.
Hollie: So, for you, was it more about connecting with people on the approach simply through the books? What was it that made you want to approach someone? What gave you that idea?
Uli: Yeah, it was a little bit of all of it. I think the driving aspect of it was really to connect with people. I had just moved to a giant city and had some connections and some people I knew through work but I really felt like New York is such a huge canvas. Everybody wants to make their distinct mark on it. I thought that I could learn a lot about the city and the micro society that were part of here. I really wanted to find out who all of these people were and what was on their mind. And of course, 2013 was a very different landscape than now. Just in terms of what was going on in the you know in the social media sphere, what was going on politically.
And I've always wanted to work on behalf of minorities and on behalf of those who don't have as much of a voice, so I thought New York being the melting pot that it is I can really connect with people from so many different backgrounds, from so many different walks of life that I would also otherwise have no access to and I could catch a glimpse into their fears and into their hopes and you know in an ideal case hear some of their secrets. And all of that over the years has proven to be true.
Hollie: How many people do you speak to now? Has it changed a lot, is it a lot more. Or have you always spoken to one person a week? How's it evolved over the last few years?
Uli: So, I started by just speaking to people whenever I was riding the train. And I'm a fairly curious person so I've always covered a lot of ground in New York City. I was told, oh you'll move here and you'll kind of have your neighbourhood and you'll go you'll go back and forth between the place you work. I thought well that sounds terribly simple and boring and nothing like the point of being in New York. So, I kind of made a point to use the subway as my little lifeline to connect me to all of these places that I was so curious about and so on these trips to these different neighbourhoods I would of course see a lot of different books at different people on the subway and I would speak to them. But then I found out that what's really amazingly fun for me is to block out four or five hours and just kind of go rogue and to just be on trains and to ride them wildly for that time being in follow a reader to their station or you know just take more time with them on the train and speak to them for a little bit longer. That has become kind of the mix, so these longer pockets of time.
I almost call it like doing yoga or meditating. Because you lose track of where you are. You have no idea how many people you've already spoken with. You don't know if you're going uptown or downtown. You don't care if the train is broken it down. You don't know if you're in one of those cars that is just super packed, you're just kind of there. That to me is like that's the funnest time to do it. The project has turned into me observing cultural trends. These books say a lot about us and people carry them as an extension of themselves. So, just like someone's wearing a cool hat or cool shirt to express who they are. People also read books as an expression of their identity or questions they have about their identity.
Hollie: Yeah, I think it's easy to make snap judgments about people because of the books they're reading.
Uli: Or hopefully not. I mean you can't do it unless you ask them. And I've been 100 percent wrong about this just by looking at a person and their book. Most of the time. That's why I do believe you know just taking a photo just doesn't do it justice. You have to have the conversation to really give the person the proper context.
That's what I believe as a story teller and as a reporter and as an observer but by observing what these people are carrying, what these pages are saying and what their thoughts about those pages are you really get an insight into with the cultural shifts that are taking place. For example, last year was all about race relations. It was about female identity. This year is so much about utopia, dystopia. We're really seeing people trying to make sense of the political situation by seeking out those kinds of books. So, then it's on me as an observer to find the best examples and say look here is what's going on. Here's what we're reading. And here is why. And this person's going to tell you about it.
Hollie: I think that's what's so interesting because I think ultimately most people do you know see someone who's reading a title and assume they know that person but then you've taken the time to unearth the reasons why they're really reading it and who they are and what they're about. Have you found people are receptive? How much do people not want to speak to vs people really open up? Have you found actually people really want to talk about it?
Uli: People love being asked about their life. I mean they are used to it from Facebook. They do it a hundred times a day. "What's on your mind?" is the question on Facebook. And I think we're used to it and we're trained to do it by social media to answer that question. And when someone does it in real life and is actually asking about our thoughts, "what's going on with us?" people are pretty delighted. They're kind of ready to go. And in some instances, people tell me no one has asked me about what I'm thinking in weeks.
Hollie: I think people are really receptive to talking, more than you'd think.
Uli: More than you think, because we're all pretty out there in our digital lives but we're also pretty isolated.
[00:10:05]
Hollie: So, I guess that hasn't been a challenge getting people to open up. Are there any challenges you have come across along this project? What's the most challenging thing you've encountered?
Uli: The most challenging thing is that trains now have Wi-Fi! I say this of course half-jokingly because if a person is reading on their Kindle or their book or their phone, as long as people are reading it's fantastic but a screen really does something different to a person. And I was recently part of this fantastic project Books on the Subway, which is one of my favourite projects because Books on the Subway obviously places books on the subway then people pick them up at.
They can read them and can put them back. And I had these books with me because I was a guest curator and had picked a book out to put on the subway. And I saw this young woman and she was looking at her screen and her face was just so zoned out. So, she kind of had the glow from the screen on your face. It was in the evening. It was during rush hour. And she truthfully, she just kind of looked sad and checked out. And I put a book next to her on the bench and walked away. And she looked at me and was like "What did you just do?"
Then she looked at the book and she saw that I wasn't doing anything with it. And she picked it up and she started smiling right away. Her whole expression changed her whole-body expression changed her body language changed. And I thought, that was so cool and fascinating and I see that all the time that people who are looking at their screen, they are not really there. Unless, of course they are listening to a hilarious podcast but you're kind of in a different reality but with a book you see that they're engaged still and they're expressing still.
And I think that's a supercool difference, so that's why I'm saying you know Wi-Fi is nobody's enemy. Being connected is a beautiful thing. I have this project that's huge on social media. It is only what it is because of social media. But I do think like having these in real life things that then create a connection, or allow someone else in, or even just make you connect differently with life. It's important to hold on to those.
Hollie: Do you speak to multiple people and then you kind of curate which ones you want to share with the world, or do you go for a conversation and you just see where it ends up and you know you are going to use it before you've heard what they are going to say, or how you go about curating the things you share back?
Uli: I go for a broad sample in my book review approach I collect book reviews from people of all ages, all backgrounds.
I try to cover a lot of ground on the city I have of course my favourite spots where I stake out. Alex. And then see who comes my way. Like Union Square is one of my favourite places to hang out and see what people are reading because I feel like that's a hub where everybody comes through. I try to create an honest collection of what I see all kinds of people reading and then I try to find the best examples and the best representatives of that. For example, Albert Camus who wrote The Stranger - I see that book being read quite a bit and then I will try to find a good example of that.
Hollie: So, what's been your favourite thing so far about starting the project? Are there any memorable moments?
Uli: One that comes to mind. I really love when I see a person again, years later, or even days later. And I see them again at the craziest circumstance. It's a city of millions and you're riding subway trains. Think about the chance that you'd get on that same train carriage as that person. And you happened to turn at the exact same moment and you see each other again. I get such a kick out of that, I can't even tell you! I saw a young woman, I think I spoke to her in 2014. And she was reading a book because she didn't understand love and relationships.
And she told me that she just can't figure out men. Her name was Lily. I remember that day. She was reading this book and she was like "I really don't understand men!". "I really don't understand relationships." Anyway, I saw her 2 years later. She had got married and she was like "things are great!". Like "I have figured it out!" I think that's so cool. That is such a neat moment. December 31, 2015, I saw me on man and it was it was New Year's Eve and I really wanted to find like the perfect book review for the last day of the year. And I just couldn't find any one who I felt you know was really excited to talk that night which was unusual. Like I said, usually people love it.
And this young man with this giant backpack kind of kept stepping in front of me and I almost started to get irritated and wanted to say get this frickin backpack out of my face. Then I realised, no I just have to ask him if he happens to have a book in that backpack. And so, I tapped on the shoulder and I said, "Sorry this is an absurd question but do you have any books with you?". And he said, "Yes my whole backpack is full of books actually!" and he pulled out I'm not kidding about 12 books and they were all about Rwanda. Because he was thinking about travelling there and spending time there to better explore and understand that country.
And he was like last day of the year, now I have to do it. I talked to you about it. You took my photo and I wished him well and we parted ways. And then later I was doing something crazy like the F to the A to the G (train line) or something like that. And as I was waiting, the doors opened of the G. Of course, right in front of me stands Jack, who I had just spoken with. And he had one of his Rwanda books with him again. And he told me that he had booked the ticket and that he was gonna go for 3 months and that he had done it and that our conversation was the thing that gave him the last push!
So, those things are super amazing. But in every conversation, I just learn something and I get a new perspective on life that I didn't have before. And I'm grateful for all of that and in sharing that I hope that other people get that too!
Hollie: Those are magical moments. I can't believe that you bump into people again.
Uli: It's the funnest. And it doesn't make sense you know because it's like well maybe it makes sense. I guess it makes sense. Life makes sense in a way that it doesn't. So, maybe we leave it at that.
Hollie: What can you tell us about Subway Book Review and where it's going?
Uli: So, currently Subway Book Review is here in New York, where I am roaming the subway and looking for readers. I also have contributors in London and in Mexico City. And I'm looking for contributors in other cities.
We're currently all women. So, the Subway Book Review is a fully women run operation which I'm very happy about. It's not intentional it just happens to be that way. The women who will apply to be contributors are super bad ass and have an incredible résumé and an incredible personality. So, they turned out to be the right ones. But yeah, I'm looking to expand to other cities. And then I'm also hoping to create a series at TV or web series that takes me to cities around the world to get a firsthand impression about what people around the world are reading.
Hollie: Are you going to do that yourself, fund it yourself? How you gonna go bringing it to life?
Uli: I just went to Mexico City and I shot a segment there because I really had no idea what people in Mexico are reading. And I felt that with the conversation being about a wall being about a wall being erected and about the dreamers and about immigration. And that conversation happening of course from political parties in a very particular kind of way. I needed to go and I needed to just see what regular life on the street was like and I was blown away.
I don't want to give away too much because I would love for you to watch the film that I made but the readership on the Metro in Mexico City puts the readership New York to shame. There are so many books and the metro in Mexico City and books are just part of everyday life in a very magical way. And I really didn't know it and I'm really happy I went.
I have a totally different access to that city now and to the people who live there after haven taken this kind of look at the city and at the citizens who live there through the lens of books. So, I'm excited to share that. Then I can't wait to go back out.
I am working on pitching the series to a network, so hopefully I'll have good news soon.
Hollie: Fingers crossed! So, what advice can you give people who want to start their own big idea?
Uli: I really believe in making actionable steps for yourself and not making it a super long to do list with 15,000 things on it. How I Started Subway Book Review was by saying "Okay, this week I have to talk to 1 person because I've noticed something and now it's on me to follow through on that and to try and experiment". So, I just had 1 goal. I said okay now you are going to ride the subway and you're going to talk to one of these readers. And then you're just going to see what happens. And that's a really actual step to take. Because it's like 1 thing that you have to do.
And then after I said "Okay, cool that was fun. So, this week let's try to talk to 2 people. Fantastic. Let's try to talk to 3 people". And then the next step was to say "Let's see if we can just have fun riding the subway for 4 hours and just relax into it and see what that does. Oh, that's super fun and actually really fruitful. Cool, let’s do that".
And then the next step was "Okay let's make an Instagram account. Let's talk a friend who is a really good designer into making me a little icon. So, then I have some kind of look about it. Let's find a really cool look for the photography and have fun exploring what that could be. And that's kind of how the black and white format came about". In other words, it was a step by step process. It's so much better to take a small step than to take no a step at all.
Hollie: It's a really interesting point, starting small. How did it become so big? What steps did you take to get to 100,000 followers now on Instagram?
Uli: On all channels we're at 125,000 plus. On Instagram, I think it's 90,000. You can't do it for that reason though I think that followers are amazing and followers are great because it means that other people have an interest in what you do. But the most important thing in any project is for you to find out what you want to practice and how you want to express yourself in the world. And we all express ourselves differently. I mentioned earlier that I'm fascinated with how we communicate and how we share space. That's something that I explore in all of my work in everything that I do. And so, in Subway Book Review I also do this and I've decided for myself how I practice it within that project.
And I think that that's really the most important thing that you can do is to practice expressing yourself. That's a fantastic thing and it's also something that no matter how you do that, it gives you something so great; which is a connection to the world and to the people around you. It's very fulfilling to do that. So, the practice in itself is really the goal. There's no other goal. But for me the goal is to practice as much as I can and to do it with as much joy that I can get out of it.
Hollie: And it's more about kind of personal fulfilment I guess I feel like the same with Books on the Subway (founded by Hollie). You ultimately have to do it for yourself and then hopefully people are interested and follow along and I think that's a great goal to set for yourself to do it for yourself. And please yourself and set the goals you want to reach and forget about everyone else.
Uli: Yeah. We're not just doing it for ourselves at all. I mean I do it to have a conversation with an individual at a very spontaneous moment. You do your project, so that someone can find a spontaneous present in the form of a book in a space that they didn't expect to find that present in. So, no you absolutely cannot do it for yourself. I think the mission is always to give something to someone. But I think in terms of the practice, the goal is to stay in the practice. Actions that I take I know affect other people.
And so I've just brought more awareness I guess to my actions and said "What can I give to people in this crazy busy city? Everybody's coming here to make something happen. And everybody ultimately wants to be seen and heard. That's why we're all in New York. How do you give someone that moment in a very small way and then how can I do that on a grander scale by going into other cities by hopefully soon going all over the world, so that we can all try to do that digitally on this platform called Subway Book Review with each other and all see each other and all hear each other?
And absolutely that totally gives me joy. And if it wouldn't give me joy, I couldn't do it every day. I couldn't do it for 4 years. So, I'm totally with you in that. Yes. Find an action that like really puts like some good vibes out in the world and then some good vibes right back into you, 100 percent!
Hollie: I have got a couple of final questions. So, obviously you've met a lot of people on the way. But if you could meet anyone, anyone at all who would it be and what would you like to ask them?
Uli: That's a fabulous question. I've been thinking about that since yesterday. I have multiple answers to that. Well one person that comes to mind that I'm just like I have a strange obsession with, really can't explain it because it's totally silly.
I would really like to meet Zac Posen and on the subway because I find his story totally fascinating in like how he came up as a fashion designer. How he originally started it as an experimental art project almost with this family and then grew in to this you know concept and into this brand. And I would just so like to ask him "How he's feeling right now. How are the books that he's reading helped him along this journey?". I don't know why but to me he's such a light interesting New Yorker. I would love to have asked Bill Cunningham what he's reading. But he was always on a bike, so that wouldn't have worked.
Just some iconic Yorkers. I recently did get to speak to Eileen Myles for 15 minutes on the subway about a book that she was reading and that was enlightening and wonderful and also you know totally nerve-racking because she's such a strong woman and such a strong personality, which I admire. I mean, obviously Beyoncé!
Hollie: That's not who I thought you were going to say. But that would be great. What would you ask her?
Uli: What would I ask her? The same question that all people get on the subway. "What are you reading and why? Tell me about it.
Hollie: I'd love to know what Beyoncé is reading!
Uli: Also, what is Rihanna reading? If anyone has access to Beyoncé and her bookshelf, do let us know! I think it's very important. You know people who influence culture people, who influence what we're thinking what we're feeling. There is this beautiful quote.
"If you see a person reading a book you love, it's like that book is recommending that person". I couldn't agree with it and more!
Hollie: If anyone wants to get in touch about working together. What would be the best way to reach out to you in case anyone wants to contact you?
Uli: The best way to get in touch is to go to www.subwaybookreview.com or to follow along on Instagram @subwaybookreview. Shoot me a DM or send me an e-mail ulibeuttercohen@gmail.com. I'm easy to find. Ride the G train (pictured below)!
Hollie: That's your local, is it?
Uli: I love the G train.
Hollie: Well, thanks Uli. It's been really great talking to you.
Uli: Thank you so much for having me.
Hollie: You're welcome.
Ends
Suggest a creator for Hollie, or another ideaXme ambassador to interview. We have ambassadors across the space industry, music, movies and art so far.
Apply to be an ideaXme ambassador interviewer. ideaXme is looking for ambassador interviewers in technology, health, fashion and design, law, humanrights and further categories. All enquiries please email: ambassadors@ideaxme.com
Follow @ideaxm